Battery values while running. 11.9 is bad?

[HidRo]

So, after reading some posts around the forum, I see that some people also have the 13.5V reading in TunerStudio.
Now, what is bugging my mind is that I checked one of my logs I did last time tuning a bit, and I was able to see that it went down to 11.9.
Now, is this something bad to work with?
I'll have to check what values I have right from the battery while idling, and compare to what I see in TS.

Cheers!

[prof315]

That's Roachwagen electrical systems for you. My Corrado does similar things.

[HidRo]

Ouch then...
I quickly checked downstairs and I can see a drop of 0.5volts between the voltage at the battery and what TS shows.
But if it's normal, then it's ok I guess.
Any precaution I have to take regarding the injectors and all? So they work fine and everything?
Cheers!

[prof315]

Ouch then...
I quickly checked downstairs and I can see a drop of 0.5volts between the voltage at the battery and what TS shows.
But if it's normal, then it's ok I guess.
Any precaution I have to take regarding the injectors and all? So they work fine and everything?
Cheers!

Best thing is to try and get the dead times for the injectors at various voltages. Total pita but doable.

[HidRo]

For the ones I have now (Audi S3 380cc) I can't get that kind of information.
I will get my Siemens Deka 630cc ones in when I change the turbo etc, and then I believe I saw a list with the dead times.
So, where will the dead times have to be set?

I'm using MSII Extra. Under Injector Open time I have set to 1.000.
Where should the deadtimes be changed etc? Dwell Battery Adjustment? (not sure on this)

If the dead times are not changed, the car will not run as it should? Any issues?

EDIT:
For the 630 injectors, this is the info I got:
60lb/h Siemens Deka 4 Mototron High Impedance (Long Style) EV1 [FI114961] - $49.99 : Muscle Motors - Siemens Deka Distributor!, Got Muscle? :
http://www.siemensdeka.com/index.php?ma ... g7cc6qibu2

Fuel Injector Lag Time :
http://injector-rehab.com/shop/lag.html

This started a while ago, and no update from last year, but it would be a good piece of info, I guess.
Megasquirt MSEXTRA and MS3EFI support forum • View topic - Injector setting's for siemens deka 630 :
http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 94&t=36303

[prof315]

Dead time is open time under Injector Characteristics. The 1.000 ms is at 13.2V ( I think) and right below is the battery correction. All you can do with MS2 is linear correction but getting things close helps keep AFRs stable at various voltages. There are several threads here in the Forums about deadtimes and their importance. It generally won't hurt things if deadtime correction is inaccurate but it does make it harder to tune the car.

[HidRo]

So, from my understanding:
Dead time for S3 injectors (that I'm not sure of) is set to 1.000, which should be correct for a car running 13.2V (currently I see 13.5 at idle, but I guess that is about right).
The Battery Voltage Correction set to 0.200 will add 0.200ms to the 1.000 if voltage goes to 12.2V (1.200ms total) and removes 0.200 if voltage goes to 14.2 (0.800ms total).
I'm getting this right, right?

Edit: As the voltage I see in the battery, and the one I see in TS is different by 0.5V, which will be considered to open the injectors? the 14V or 13.5V?

[prof315]

You've got how the voltage correction works.

As far as the .5V difference goes..... that's why dead times are such a PITA. MS sees 13.5V but the injectors are seeing 14V. I try to split the difference and that usually gets me close.

[HidRo]

Ok, so now, just one little thing to ask.

You said that you think the open time you enter in MS is for 13.2V. Is there a way to know for what voltage this will be set?
I see that MS3 has a much more complex system to do all this stuff.
Thanks for the Help!

EDIT:
I just checked a MS3 MSQ and I see that the Dead Time there is set to 13.2V. Am I ok to assume that this is a MS standard, therefore it will be the same for MS3 and MS2?
With this being so, I should set it to 0.900 (assuming 1.000@14V and getting somewhere in between of 14V and 13.5V)? Not that I'm going to change the injector characteristics now, but will do so with the Deka's, so I would like to know this in advance.

[prof315]

I am assuming the same thing ( 13.2 on MS3 = 13.2 on MS2) and yeah I'd go with ~.900ms @13.2V with the Dekas if they are 1.0ms @14V.

[HidRo]

From the Siemens site:
http://www.siemensdeka.com/index.php?ma ... g7cc6qibu2
Turn on time @ 14VDC: 1.14ms
But then you have a spec sheet from their site as well where they show this:



They show mixed information...

[jsmcortina]

The information in the pictures looks consistent to me and is very interesting.
"Offset" is the number you want. i.e. injector dead time, which is incorrectly called opening time in MS1/2. Megasquirt is using the offset at 13.2 Volts. So from the table I'd enter 0.5ms and 0.11ms/V. (That does seem a very small dead time, but that's what their spec sheet says.)

James

[HidRo]

So, what would "Turn on time @ 14VDC: 1.14ms" be as described in the first page?
Also, until now, I think I've always seen from other users logs the battery voltage at 13.5 and around. So, is there something about the voltage the battery sees, and the one MS sees?

[jsmcortina]

You forgot about the closing time.

Offset or Dead time (or Megasquirt "opening time") = (real) Opening time - Closing time

That 1.14ms figure for opening time is at 14V too. You need the Offset at 13.2V.

I don't understand your question about battery voltage.

James

[HidRo]

Well, to get it right this time, the question is:

Why do I see on all (now that I've checked) other logs, the battery voltage at 13.5, and not 14 as it would be expected (like you can see if you check this directly at the battery).
Is there a 0.5V drop when using MS, and therefore the dead/open time is to be set at 13.2V?
Why the 13.2V dead time, if usually the vendors will show the info @14V?

[ryniobl]

Why do I see on all (now that I've checked) other logs, the battery voltage at 13.5, and not 14 as it would be expected (like you can see if you check this directly at the battery).

Ground offset probably.Bad (old?) cables/connections I guess.

[HidRo]

Have you checked a log from your setup?
13.5 is what I see for basically all logs I've checked so far.

[jsmcortina]

Is there a 0.5V drop when using MS, and therefore the dead/open time is to be set at 13.2V?

Sounds like you need to alter your battery voltage calibration.

Why the 13.2V dead time, if usually the vendors will show the info @14V?

Because that's how the code is written, just get on with it.

James

[HidRo]

James, I believe you missunderstood my point here.
I'm not arguing about anything that has been written, nor I want anyone to change anything.

That being said, I was asking this, because when the code was written, it could be that the person writting the code was aware of the difference in voltage (if this was supposed to be normal) and the open time entered in TS (that will be to 13.2) would be equivelent to the open time@14V vendors mention.
I'm sorry if I passed the wrong message on my posts.

I believe that there is enough information in this topic for me to understand how it works, and how I should setup my setup.
Thanks all.
Gonçalo

[jsmcortina]

That being said, I was asking this, because when the code was written, it could be that the person writting the code was aware of the difference in voltage (if this was supposed to be normal) and the open time entered in TS (that will be to 13.2) would be equivelent to the open time@14V vendors mention.

No.

James