Help: No RPM input MS3 V3.0

[PatrickLewis]

could be 160 or 520 depending on which pickup i use, seemed wierd to me too. heres some comp logs, can anybody tell me if they work for them?

[wrenchdad]

blacktop 20v 4age.

humm...I am running a Silvertop 20V 4age using two of the VR sensors in the dizzy also SO our settings should not be that far off? but you can see that my #1 tooth angle is at 21 degrees?

BUT anyway, you are not getting your second trigger input, your cam sensor input, so I would think IF your harness is correct then you need to adjust your cam sensor pots until you get that signal, you will not get your engine to start in COP mode until that input is good. You can try Wasted spark COP, I think that will not need the cam input, then all you would need is your #1 tooth angle to be correct, then when you get it started on that then work on the cam input signal.

Seeing you are using your dizzy for all your spark inputs, here is a incar method to get the pots set, set the engine on #1 TDC, mark and pull the dizzy out of the head leaving it plugged into the harness, then unplug your injector connectors, (keeps from filling the engine up wtih fuel) then turn the key to "RUN" position, then turning the dizzy in the correct rotation, adjust the pots to get a good rpm reading down in the 150-200 rpm range that will ensure a good cranking signal that will take one thing out of the mix, then all you need is the get your #1 tooth angle correct if it doesn't start when you put everything back together. It doesn't take turning the dizzy very fast to get the cranking rpms, I just put a small screwdriver in one of the small holes in the 24 tooth wheel.

hope this helps,
later wd

[PatrickLewis]

thank you, i ran out of daylight but i will be checking the harness tomorrow and adjusting the pots if necessary. I don't know why our settings would be so different, strange i will double check my measurements i still have the degree wheel on the motor.

[wrenchdad]

Try this count the number of teeth in the dizzy from TDC back to one of the cam sensors, it may be that you degree wheel is off but the teeth will be right.

later wd

[PatrickLewis]

OK, I pulled the distributor out, turned both pots in the ms3x card a little and tried spinning it by hand. i got cam and crank signal in comp logger, and noticed that i heard my injectors clicking. so i switched to gauge cluster and was very excited to see the rpm between 400 and 700 depending on how fast i was spinning it. So i put the distributor back in and cranked it... nothing.

I pulled it back out and spun it by hand and got rpm at first, then nothing. looking at comp logger i saw cam signal, but no crank signal. I tried adjusting the pots on the mainboard with no change, so i have them both set fully counter clockwise now. I checked the connections on the harness, and thats all good. Im a little frusterated now.

[wrenchdad]

None of my pots on the main board or the MS3X board are set to full CCW. If I remember correctly some ofmy pots are as much as 3-3.5 turns CW from full CCW, so you may just need to adjust some more. BUT you will have to get the MS to "SEE" rpms lower if you are going to get it to start.

SO first unplug your injectors before you fill your engine with fuel !!!! Then make sure you are turning in the correct rotation and keep adjusting a little at time until you can get rpm at something below 150-200 rpms that will ensure you can see rpms while cranking the engine during starting. Then when you have cranking rpms set correctly and the engine still will not start then I would have to guess that your #1 tooth angle is not correct or your base timing is not set which you can check while cranking by setting under the Ignition settings not to use the spark table but instead "Fixed Timing" which will give you the default fixed 10 degrees BTDC and using a timing light you can verify that you base timing is correct.

keep us posted and we will help where we can
later wd

PS if you set the engine on #1 TDC, then if you will look at the spade drive on the dizzy you will see a little mark on one end of it that has a matching mark on the dizzy case base, lining them up will ensure that the dizzy is in the correct spot for #1 at TDC and not 180 degrees out, just in case your marks got rubbed off. later wd

[Kennyx]

OK ... make the it simple

1) full ccw both r56 ( ms3 ) and r11 ( ms3x ) at the first place
2) Make 6 full turn on r56, 3 full turn on r11
3) enable composite logger and crank ... remember to disable the injector power or signal from ms3/ms3x
4) print screen and post here your logger ...

KennyX

[wrenchdad]

OK, I pulled the distributor out, turned both pots in the ms3x card a little and tried spinning it by hand. i got cam and crank signal in comp logger, and noticed that i heard my injectors clicking. so i switched to gauge cluster and was very excited to see the rpm between 400 and 700 depending on how fast i was spinning it. So i put the distributor back in and cranked it... nothing.

I pulled it back out and spun it by hand and got rpm at first, then nothing. looking at comp logger i saw cam signal, but no crank signal. I tried adjusting the pots on the mainboard with no change, so i have them both set fully counter clockwise now. I checked the connections on the harness, and thats all good. Im a little frusterated now.

OK, I think you just need to adjust a bit more on your Cam pots until you get rpms in the cranking range 150-200 or lower, getttng the 400-700 proved your harness is wired correctly but you will not get your engine to crank until you get rpms in the crank range. SO you must turn the dizzy slower, its not just a matter of getting rpms, you HAVE to get them in the cranking range to be able to start the engine. And please unplug your injectors or pull the fuse to your injectors before you hydro lock your engine with fuel.

Run both a normal log and a composite log while you are setting the pots for more troubleshooting. I would also suggest for you to take notes on how much you turn the pots and which one you are turning.

Hang in there its a steep learning curve but you will get there.
later wd

[PatrickLewis]

thanks for the replies guys, i havent had time to mess with it much this week, but i have gotten it pretty close to being correct.

kennyx i will do what you suggested next time i get to work on it. at those settings i dont think i will get anything from the 24tooth wheel, but i will try it. the cam signal is working now, i may adjust it to get a nicer signal later, but it is working at cranking rpm now.

wrenchdad, my fuel pump isnt hooked up so they injectors are dry. as soon as i get a good rpm signal on crank i will check it with a timing light. my cam signal is coming in fine on crank, its the 24 tooth signal that im having trouble with. I think i may just lack the patience to adjust these things correctly. thanks for all the help.

[PatrickLewis]

composite logger.png (202.64 KiB) Viewed 144 times

with the pots set the way you wanted at approximately crank speed.

compositelogger2.png (188.25 KiB) Viewed 144 times

spinning the s*** out of it, same settings on the pots.

[wrenchdad]

post the composite files and latest msq flle please

wd