V3.0 MS3X for Nissan VK56 V8 setup help

[billr]

James, you know far better than I ever will, of course, but help me try to understand. Is the reason it can't run waste-spark and semi-sequential because it is a 36-2 wheel instead of a 36-1 presently supported in the code?

[jsmcortina]

It is a 36-1-1 (the -1 teeth are opposite not adjacent.)
I'm pretty sure there's no way to run the existing code with that wheel only as it is.

James

[billr]

OK, thanks. That I can sure understand. I saw before that it was called "36-1-1", but couldn't see two separate missing teeth in the posted tooth trace; that's why I wanted to see a trace with one rev spread out.

Edit: Oops, I went back and looked at the trace. I had never counted the pulses there before, just figured each gap is one revolution. It's pretty obvious where the two missing teeth are!

Edit2: And I can see how that pattern is pretty impossible to use without a cam sensor!

[sjl008]

OK, thanks. That I can sure understand. I saw before that it was called "36-1-1", but couldn't see two separate missing teeth in the posted tooth trace; that's why I wanted to see a trace with one rev spread out.

Edit: Oops, I went back and looked at the trace. I had never counted the pulses there before, just figured each gap is one revolution. It's pretty obvious where the two missing teeth are!

Edit2: And I can see how that pattern is pretty impossible to use without a cam sensor!

The engine is the same as the LS1 just have to swap the firing order 3~2 around, and time the existing QR35DE, or QR25DE cam pattern to mate with this crank and were set. (As James mentioned in an earlier post):

by jsmcortina » Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:21 pm

Is that not a QR35DE wheel pattern? That's an existing option.

But
I'm sure going to try today to get a "Legitimate" composite log for him to use....

[sjl008]

OK, thanks. That I can sure understand. I saw before that it was called "36-1-1", but couldn't see two separate missing teeth in the posted tooth trace; that's why I wanted to see a trace with one rev spread out.

Edit: Oops, I went back and looked at the trace. I had never counted the pulses there before, just figured each gap is one revolution. It's pretty obvious where the two missing teeth are!

Edit2: And I can see how that pattern is pretty impossible to use without a cam sensor!

The engine is the same as the LS1 just have to swap the firing order 3~2 around, and time the existing QR35DE, or QR25DE cam pattern to mate with this crank and were set. (As James mentioned in an earlier post):

by jsmcortina » Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:21 pm

Is that not a QR35DE wheel pattern? That's an existing option.

But
I'm sure going to try today to get a "Legitimate" composite log for him to use....

[jsmcortina]

The engine is the same as the LS1

How does it resemble the LS1 aside from being a V8?

It uses totally different crank and cam patterns!

James

[sjl008]

I stand corrected, the LS1 is 90* i think, and the VK is 60* (Off the top of my head.) anyway, the cam pattern might be used (the script) with some adjustments. My previous posts example the differences between the 2 motors more clear. For a brief moment I thought by simply manipulating the codes from both it would simplify.....nevermind.how do I delete a stupid post.....DOE!!!

[jsmcortina]

Just because two engines have the same number of cylinders doesn't have any impact on the wheel decoder!
The LS and VK engines are totally different as far as decoding goes.

James

[billr]

Please forgive me for inserting this question, but it has been bugging me since I saw the cam trigger pattern, towards the beginning of this thread:

Since a 36-1 or 60-2 type of crank wheel and simple "half moon" cam/dizzy wheel will give all the info needed for full sequential/COP, what is the attraction to all the other patterns; is it just a matter of getting around someone else's patent?

[jsmcortina]

For the OEMs you mean? I also don't know why there are SO many re-inventions of the wheel.
A half-moon cam wheel isn't great for VVT (although it could work) but the VW/LS2 cam pattern does the job simply and effectively.

James

[billr]

Ah, VVT... I wasn't thinking about that; now I see some need for more than "half moon" and polling on the cam.

[sjl008]

see attached Logfiles, there are both cam n crank patterns.... nice n clean in the composite logger .csv

I tryed hard for 10 hrs to get them both on the same screen. I will try another laptop with TS and see if thats the difference. Now, with my 'oscope', I am seeing hysterious in the cam pattern. I have configured the TS & burned tune for many different types and still wind up using Log crank & Cam setting. I rarely get to see the pattern on the screen. My laptop is xp w/1g AMDcpu/ 1g ram; and it works great with all other programs including....uhghuuum,motec.

I will be checking my email today because hotels are expensive here and I want to get enough data to produce a decoder for this, so help if you can.
I will also try my other laptop w/ TS (Both r lic. to me) to see if thats an issue. ALL updated firmware, and .ini for TS so is there another reason why its not showing cam/crANK TOGETHeR? hint- signal is from EXTRA board, and cannot tune out hysterious with the superSmall trim pots either.......odd.

If you need a visual of both accurately super-imposed, I can P'shop it up; but, I believe you're more interested in the trigger numbers in the .csv for your script...



p.s.- clock is set corretly ;)

[dieselgeek]

Any thoughts of simply mounting an external trigger wheel and cam pickup instead of working through another wheel? (although would be nice to see this engine added to the fold).

You should be able to rig something up simply enough that would let you get to the tuning part.

[sjl008]

Any thoughts of simply mounting an external trigger wheel and cam pickup instead of working through another wheel? (although would be nice to see this engine added to the fold).

You should be able to rig something up simply enough that would let you get to the tuning part.

You read my mind!!!

Any ideas? I pulled the extra board off today so I don't deal w/ the cam- now its a matter of config. for wasted COPs, bank inj. for 8 port injectors, and whats next? I had my eyes on a RX-8 11 tooth trigger wheel I saw i GUY mount on a VK56 (V8 5.6L DOHC) that looked dooable. He said His description stated he redrilled for the VK motor.

Does the rx-8 SET-UP sound good? Mr. cortina?

[jsmcortina]

Just use a regular 36-1 wheel. The RX8 is another weird pattern.

James

[dieselgeek]

36-1 and figure out a 1-tooth cam signal, you'll have sequential spark and injection - all the best features of MS3X. Piece of cake!

[sjl008]

36-1 and figure out a 1-tooth cam signal, you'll have sequential spark and injection - all the best features of MS3X. Piece of cake!

So, if I just go with a 'front crank mounted Trigger Wheel' ( say 36-1) and follow the instructions here I can have full sequential injection with wasted COP ignition????? please tell me it's true.



If so, I can re-install the MSextra board for the sequential injection! ( btw- My 3 lights never come on on the MS3 unit, just sometimes blink once real quick; my other MS3 w/daughtercard works fine.... curious)

[racingmini_mtl]

To have full sequential injection requires a cam signal as mentioned by Scott (dieselgeek). With only a crank signal, you can have semi-sequential injection (similar to wasted spark ignition). And this is mentioned in the manual page you linked.

Jean

[sjl008]

To have full sequential injection requires a cam signal as mentioned by Scott (dieselgeek). With only a crank signal, you can have semi-sequential injection (similar to wasted spark ignition). And this is mentioned in the manual page you linked.

Jean

Thanks Jean,
This first timers missing a lot, but getting there. So, I can setup wasted COP with the extra board in place but having a V8 using 2 4/5 wire igniters is cool?

Because Im not stateside, I have to make it. So, I am fashioning a168mm diameter 36-1 wheel with the teeth evenly spaced 50%/50% tooth space tooth space.... Thats how they looked in some pics I saw. Will this work? using different VR sensor as well.

[jsmcortina]

(We could still get this working on the stock wheels.)

In MS3 there is an option for "wasted COP" which lets you wire up a set of COPs (one per cylinder) and the code fires them in pairs. That acts as an upgrade path for sequential - all the wiring is there ready for when you add the cam sensor.

James