EGT values 2.0 turbo 16v engines

[Timmerklits]

Hello,

Does anyone know or have datalogs of there cars with the EGT value in it at boost? (measured before the turbo)

I want to know what the max limit is.

I'm reaching 950 degrees celcious now.at 1.4 bar boost (lancia delta)

I also checked a original car (alfa 155 q4 2.0 turbo) to know what the values here are, and i'm reaching 920-930 degrees (and this with a lot less boost).
So i think we still are in a good range.

But if you look on the internet or ask people everyone says this is to much, (but if even the original car has it this hot???)

That's why I want to know if there are people here with datalogs so that I can compare them with my datalogs, (rpm, boost, egt; afr)

[techsalvager]

Depends, make sure you notice where the others that say its too much are taking measurements from.
I haven't been in boost lately but I hit around 700 degrees C cruising, 1.6l 16v turbo 4 cylinder.
My thermocouple is around a inch from the exhaust port on cylinder four.

How much timing do you have in boost up top or can you post your spark map?

[Timmerklits]

Hello,

I have my sensor right in the middle of the manfold, so between 2nd and 3rd cylinder, (turbo is at 4th cylinder).

See spark map and measurements attached. I can put the real files also online if you want, but you can see everythhing in the picture I think.

regards,

[Morten VJ]

Volvo used an EGT sensor on the B204ft engine, 2l 16v turbo.
The sensor was placed 5 cm before the turbo flange.
Around 950 deg C. they startet to add fuel to lower the temperature.
Sensor placement is important, for the temp reading.
I read the temperature would be app. 100 deg C lower. Just after the exhaust flange.
Compared to the sensor just before the turbo flange.

[techsalvager]

why is your timing retarded so far? Is this normal or just a basic starting point?
Fuel octane issues?

[Timmerklits]

The timing is allready more then original so it's not retarded compared to original setting.

We started from 10 degrees, ended up at 14, at 15 degrees hp wasn't that much more, so we went 1 degree back to be safe.
Offcourse with advancing ignition the EGT goes lower, but you also have more chance of knocking.

Every 1 degree more advance, starting from 10 gave us 5-10 hp more, but going from 14 to 15 only gave 2 hp more, so we stopped at 14.

How much do you have then, or why are you asking?
For non turbo cars I go up to 32 degrees, and sometimes even more.

But I have here the original setting for lancia delta in a workshop manual, with 3D maps at every boost pressure.
They only have 7-9 degrees at 1,2 bar boost, (higher boost levels aren't in the book)

[techsalvager]

hmm interesting to see such levels.
Do you have pictures of the combustion chamber and piston?
Also whats the SCR and do you have specs on the cams?

anyways mine is abit higher then that.
I have to go back on the dyno to try to optimize it more one day, its based of diy base map for this car but have tuned in more certain areas



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[Timmerklits]

Hello,

What engine are you talking about? I know the 8V engines have up to 18 degrees of advance at 1.2 bar. boost

I don't have picture of combustion chamber, but compression ratio is 1:8,5, cams are Road medium from C&B lancia delta 16v.

regards

[techsalvager]

The engine is from a Mazda Miata\MX5
1.6l B6-ZE
9.4:1 SCR
16v twin cam.

[Timmerklits]

I can maybe advance it a little bit more earlier in rpm. I have 11 at 3800, 12 at 5000 and 14 at 6000, the 12 i can put maybe also at 14 or 13.5 , this will lower the EGT in an earlier stage and maybe it will not reach so high anymore.

Advancing 1 degree I saw EGT lower 10-20 degrees sometimes, but offcourse you always have to be aware that there is no knocking.

[Timmerklits]

We now drove on spa francorchamps with the lancia.

But here, when going on the straight we reach 1005 degrees celcius.
So we added more fuel above 5000 rpm.

After a few more times driving we added more fuel, now we only reach 950-960 degrees, but the afr now is at 10.1-10.2, so way to rich, anything less then 11.0 is to ruch, even for a Turbocharged engine.
Also on the straight, the engine didn't go higher in rpm anymore because its to rich. I think we went from 275 hp on the power test bench at afr 11.5-12.0, to now maybe only 230 hp at 10.0, it's really a lot less.

Before going to spa, we tested on the road, and I added some advance in the lower revs, we know have 14 degree advance allready from 3800 rpm or so.

The question now offcours is, what's good and what's bad.

Is the temperature of 1000 degrees to much or not, the engine has a lot more HP, and up to now we didn't have any problems, melted pistons or whatever.
Does it need to be as low as 950 or so, if so, what good be our problem, if we must put it so rich to have good temperature we loose an enormous amount of power, this can't be right.
I don't know people who I am sure of that they also measured the EGT on circuit, and see how it is.
Also when you have not the stock exhaust manifold (what we have), if you have the manifold with equal length and no cast iron, you maybe read lower EGT, but is it really lower at the piston? I'm not sure of that, you can't measure anymore at the same point.

Or will the turbo+exhaust manifold we have give to much backpressure, and causes these high EGT values.

Here a video on spa of it: => http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBxIg-dGLBo&list=UUTijJA7kgOIbW5NguCmjlaQ&index=2&feature=plcp

[Timmerklits]

Will this be good ? it's really cheap

http://www.ebay.it/itm/MANIFOLD-Collettore-4-in-1-inox-316-LANCIA-DELTA-2-0-16v-TURBO-FIAT-COUPE-16-V-/270939401495?pt=Ricambi_automobili&hash=item3f153f2d17#ht_2231wt_952

[q4_fre]

Hi,

I can not give you any temp measuremets, but I have an 155 Q4 myself - still "just" use the original ecu with a chip.
I have installed an Turbonetics T04e 46 with stg.3 wheel, .63a/r exhaust, after this the engine feels much more "loose".
The original turbo is way too restrictive to do any tuning, the manifold will glow red, even on standard 0.7bar boost.

An new header will help move the temps away from cyl 4, which is good, but now I need to do quite hard track driving to get the same glowing manifold. I have boosted up to 2bar on it, still it does not restrict the engine like the original turbo does.
The turbonetics uses an internal wastegate, much the same as the sierra/sapphire cosworth backend wastegate housing, which in itself is not a very good solution to get away from too high backpressure..