Help: No RPM input MS3 V3.0

[PatrickLewis]

here is my current .msq

[Matt Cramer]

Trigger wheel settings make sense - could you post a composite log of an attempted start?

[PatrickLewis]

not getting anything in composite logger. what i was getting in tooth logger appears to have been a little noise when i would power the ms up. What should I do? would a pullup resistor be necessary with the VR? i didnt think so, but i will try it now. I am beginning to think there is something wrong with the mainboard, but shouldnt i have been at least getting the cam signal off "G2".

[PatrickLewis]

not getting anything in composite logger. what i was getting in tooth logger appears to have been a little noise when i would power the ms up. What should I do? would a pullup resistor be necessary with the VR? i didnt think so, but i will try it now. I am beginning to think there is something wrong with the mainboard, but shouldnt i have been at least getting the cam signal off "G2".

[PatrickLewis]

mainboard jumpers are from tachselect to VRin, and VRout to Tsel. pots are adjusted fully counterclockwise.

[wrenchdad]

Are you running COPs? If so, not sure it your spark settings are correct to them. Attached is a screen shot of my settings for my 4AGE 20V using the stock dizzy inputs. I also had to adjust my pots several turns off of full CCW on both boards.

I built a rig on a piece of plywood to clamp the dizzy on so I could run it with a cordless drill or by hand for the cranking rpms, to get the pots set right. Even had to adjust the mainboard pots a good bit after upgrading from MS2 to MS3. Also had to use some noise filtering to get rid of higher rpm sync issues.

hope this helps, later wd

[PatrickLewis]

thanks wrenchdad, thats an awesome reference for me. are you tapping G2 or G1 on the dizzy?

[wrenchdad]

Never could find how to tell the difference? But I will check the pinout tomorrow and let you know which ones I am using. One of your settings is probably WRONG !!! Running with Spark Output set wrong can damage your COPs and/or drivers !! From the manual...........

Be sure you have set MS3X spark hardware and for 99% of installs you should set Spark Output to "Going high (inverted)"
Note to upgraders, if you were previously using the "LED drivers" with a pullup to give a logic spark then you were almost certainly set to "Going low (normal)" before, so be sure to switch that setting to "Going high (inverted)" when moving to MS3X spark outputs.

That is from this link. a little over half way down.

http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/ignition.html#settings

later wd

PS here is a link showing the pinouts on 20V dizzy http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/trigger-wheel.html#nippon but I will still have to look at which one I am using.

[PatrickLewis]

Thanks wrenchdad, I've already changed to going high, ill keep messing with the pots I guess

[Scottie-GNZ]

In looking at the settings posted by wrenchdad, I notice that the Tooth #1 Angle is set to 21*. I was under the impression that value had to be greater that the largest value in the Timing Table.

[wrenchdad]

Nope, see last link at the bottom in my post above. I think you are thinking of "missing tooth" setup using "Trigger angle/offset (deg)" When I was running my MS2 using two teeth cutout of dizzy and only using one sensor ( NE ) I had that setting set to 70 degrees, does not apply in this setup.

later wd

[wrenchdad]

Guys,

Checked my dizzy connector, looking at the backside, I am not using the second pin going right to left. I actually have that pin grounded to the block thru a resistor, 1K, I think, just to help with stray noise.

later wd

[PatrickLewis]

ok, built a new mainboard and still doesnt work. im not getting anything in logger, not even noise. the wiring is good, i followed it from the sensor to the connector and took the cover off to see if the pins had pulled out, but they are all fine. jumpers are from Tachselect to VRin, and TSEL to VRout. no 5v pullup, pots are turned all the way counter clockwise. wtf.

[wrenchdad]

SO you built a complete new rev3.0 unit and still have the same problem? SO that makes it seem that it could be in your harness if you are doing all the testing in the car. I had a issue with the built mainboard harness, had a pin pull out of the connector, BUT I am sure that was because I do not use the hood on the connector and my harness has to turn sharply after leaving the MS box, just something to think about.

Do you have a stim? If not then I would suggest getting one so you can KNOW that your unit it good and narrow down where your problem is, in the MS unit, harness or what.

The only way I got my pots set where I could get good starting RPMs was by pulling my dizzy and MS unit out of the car and connect them all up on the bench and turn the dizzy by hand and get the pots set where I could get good RPMs down to about 80 or so. NONE of my pots, both mainboard or MS3X, are set to full CCW. I took notes as I turned them to see what worked best and I am pretty sure I have one sensor set to rising and one set to falling to get the G signal centered between the NE signal pulses. I also had to turn on noise filter to get rid of a sync lost issue at higher RPMs and after turning that on had to revisit the pots a bit to get the starting RPMs to pick up back where I had them before the filtering.

hope this helps, hang in the man, you will get there!
later wd

[PatrickLewis]

thanks wrenchdad, I checked the harness, and took the connector apart. everything is fine and i've got continuity to the pins for the signal and ground wire to the sensor.

[PatrickLewis]

ok, I am getting something in tooth logger now, but it is still not reading an rpm signal. I haven't had a whole lot of time to mess with it, so i'm sure its something simple, but i thought i would upload these anyways and get some input on what im doing wrong.

[wrenchdad]

What firmware are you running? Try getting a composite log that might help to see what is going on.

I did look at your msq and I am wondering why you have your "#1 Tooth Angle" set to 160 degrees? That doesn't look right for a that type of dizzy setup. Have you read this page in the manual? There are writeups about 3/4 way down about the Denso 24/1 or 24/2 dizzy.

http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/trigger-wheel.html

wd

[PatrickLewis]

yes i read it and i followed the instructions, that was the measurement i got with my degree wheel.

[wrenchdad]

What engine is this?

[PatrickLewis]

blacktop 20v 4age.