V3.0 MS3X for Nissan VK56 V8 setup help

[sjl008]

Greetings Megasquirts,

I've got several race cars wanting to outfit starting with the '08 Nissan Titan truck motor.
I built ths V 3.0 mainboard and included the MS3x for sequential injection and other features I like. Now, with the MSII chip, the stim works fine. The one I ordered gave too high a voltage at the tachsel (over 5v~11+v) so I breadboarded one according to your schematic and it works fine with tunerstudios. value adjustments operate fine!

Now, when I put in the MS3X cpu sisterboard, the tach tops out at 65,000+ RPM! why?
The TPS doesn't function either ....odd. It will just give me a '905' min, 905 max value when I calibrate it in TS. (TunerStudios)

The Nissan has 3 wire COPs so I use (2) bosch signal amplifiers to integrate the logic spark MS3X outputs with the coils themselves.

The VK56 also uses VR (3wire) sensors which I've checked with an oscilloscope and they operate fine on 5vref; however, the signal starts at a baseline voltage, then when crank, the spike drops. So, the signal will always have a voltage giving to it for the cam and crank VR sensor inputs.

Am I doing this right? I have searched for simular posts, googled, but have nothing. Any help is much appreciated!(I can post screenshots need be)

Cheers!

2012-03-26_20.45.20.msq

here is the tune

(129.41 KiB) Downloaded 27 times

[sjl008]

Here is the crank signal generated whilst cranking over. Have been trying to setup correctly, but in this instance I had flipped polarity to sensor wires so it appears 'rightside up'. The computer will actually see it as a more constant 3.3+ with a dip for the [17]spikes between the missing teeth; any response is much appreciated...thanks in advance!
Three wires, POS(VREF off TPS pin #26-SIG-NEG

[sjl008]

My latest efforts have included much forum reading (Thanks to previous posters!) and investigation into the MSV3.0 w/extra seq sisterboard.

By following what instructions provided online, I hope to have narrowed it down to the cam input. If I can figure this out I hope to get to a point I can start having proper outputs to fire it up! BUT, (2) problems listed here:
#1- What the heck do I do about this CAM VR CONFIGURATION? does MSextra take it into account and 'Learn' it? help please...



Also, no TPS with either stim, or with the harness hooked up and in the car. Vref and pin#'s all correct. (Doesn't matter with stim since I have a 2nd. MSII that I started with and stim w/ TPS works fine. AM I MISSING a config. somewhere to enable it with MSextra???


Purchased stim applies too high voltage to Tsel so I don't use it-but you can see the breadboarded wrx fine, even the tach output.



Here is the bottom side of my board:
(Since re-installed MAP sensor correctly)

[Matt Cramer]

Now, when I put in the MS3X cpu sisterboard, the tach tops out at 65,000+ RPM! why?

This is a sign of a configuration error. In your case, it's not going to let you use a single crank wheel with no cam wheel run sequential injection. You've also set it for a 72 tooth wheel with 4 consecutive teeth missing and odd-fire, neither of which sound right.

[jsmcortina]

Is that not a QR35DE wheel pattern? That's an existing option.

Looks like your MAP sensor is installed upside down.

James

[sjl008]

Now, when I put in the MS3X cpu sisterboard, the tach tops out at 65,000+ RPM! why?

This is a sign of a configuration error. In your case, it's not going to let you use a single crank wheel with no cam wheel run sequential injection. You've also set it for a 72 tooth wheel with 4 consecutive teeth missing and odd-fire, neither of which sound right.

Aaah, correct.
I hooked up the stiim with new firmware installed, re-config'd for single coil etc. to check 65k rpm etc. and everything began to [bench] operate fine


Now, I will re-install map and recheck. (I installed same in both my MS2 & 3)

BIG QUESTION: How do I config. for this cam wheel???
(I will try and find that "Option QR35DE")

What would the setup be for my crankwheel pattern shown in my oscope picture above? (17- then missing-17-then missing...)
I really would like to get this thing running today; or, at least sputtering

[sjl008]

Is that not a QR35DE wheel pattern? That's an existing option.

Looks like your MAP sensor is installed upside down.

James

This could explain why you guys drilled the hole in the wrong place in the case end..... (J/K)

[billr]

OK, so what's new here?

Oh, I see now, this is in the "tuning" forum.

[sjl008]

OK, so what's new here?

Oh, I see now, this is in the "tuning" forum.

Thanks Bill, answering your question, I flipped the maps over and they work fine now. (Both units- MS2/ MS3X

Now, Plugged in the car, I can't seem to get the right trigger wheel setup. The cam may need some altering for MS to operate. (Please advise if had success with this type of cam wheel)

Is that not a QR35DE wheel pattern? That's an existing option.

I see "QR25DE", is this what you're talking about? I find in:
Ignition Settings---> Ignition Options/Wheel Decoder---->Spark Mode (dizzy,EDIS,Wheel)------->QR25DE ...I'm really starting to get it now thanks guys.

I'm praying this is a setup for the Infinity V8 which is simular. This Newbie would like to know if he's on the right path

So it would be correct to select these options:---> change to full sequential > even fire> COPS IGN.> ???

[jsmcortina]

It looks to be the same or a very similar pattern, but that mode is presently 4 cyl ONLY. Extending it to cover V8 would not be too difficult, but would require some iterative changes to get the phasing and timing spot on.

As a first test
- disconnect coils and injectors
- select QR25DE and 4cyl
- power off, power on.
- crank engine and see if you get stable rpm with no sync loss.

James

[sjl008]

It looks to be the same or a very similar pattern, but that mode is presently 4 cyl ONLY. Extending it to cover V8 would not be too difficult, but would require some iterative changes to get the phasing and timing spot on.

As a first test
- disconnect coils and injectors
- select QR25DE and 4cylinders- power off, power on.
- crank engine and see if you get stable rpm with no sync loss.

James

Understood.

So, if I understand correctly, the setting (Mode) for QR25DE is 'PRE-CODED' for 4 cyl., and not V8. So, to achieve a syncronous 1-8-7-3-6-5-4-2 sequential plug, and injector timing, someone may need to create a 'New Mode' right?

If QR25DE (Mode) is sync'd Crankshaft/Camshaft for the 1-3-4-2, then additions to a new assembly code, cab, and/or .ini file for this engine would need to be creating a 1.0.5a+...lol for TS I'm guessing? or am I overthinking here.

[jsmcortina]

If QR25DE (Mode) is sync'd Crankshaft/Camshaft for the 1-3-4-2, then additions to a new assembly code, cab, and/or .ini file for this engine would need to be creating a 1.0.5a+...lol for TS I'm guessing? or am I overthinking here.

Yes, exactly.

More technically.
Given that the "decoder" part is working, then extending it for more cylinders is not particularly difficult, although without full service data it will be guesswork to get the pattern aligned with the correct cylinders.

(Adding a decoder for an entirely new pattern would be a lot more involved.)

James

[sjl008]

This I can understand. I know it is a "Crossplane crank" V8 as apposed to a (Chevy etc.) flat-plane, and its more of a stable, less vibration due to reciprocating mass geometry:

How does one go about adjusting for more cylynders? is it written in VB? C? C+ or assembly/machine? I can manipulate code, but scratch writing is beyond my scope of neurosynapsyng

[jsmcortina]

That's quite an interesting couple of images. Most common V8s are the upper pattern. Rover V8 is 18436572 same as SB Chevy.

Megasquirt2/3 code is mostly written in C with some interrupts in assembler. You can even download and look at the code if you wish, see http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=125&t=42701

However, modifying wheel decoders or other ignition code is beyond the scope of most users and is something that the core developers (i.e. myself of Ken) would undertake.

What's really needed is a service manual picture that show the crank and cam pattern with cyl#1 TDC compression indicated.
e.g. something similar to this: http://www.msextra.com/doc/triggers/36-2-2-2_%23cam.jpg

James

[sjl008]

What's really needed is a service manual picture that show the crank and cam pattern with cyl#1 TDC compression indicated.
e.g. something similar to this: http://www.msextra.com/doc/triggers/36-2-2-2_%23cam.jpg
James

All I was able to come up with now was: this for cam timing.

Questions/Bulletpoints/Options: (Options)
1- I can machine a "CAP' to put over the cam end, (I can mill-out a cap with 1 slot.) this could just signal a #1TDC compression position. Or, a decoder for this crank type available with a different pattern... perhaps LS3 chevy? (Honestly this is all I am doing now daily-trying to get it going...fyi)

2- LUCKLY the VK56 only has (1) cam sensor, unlike whats shown here. Now, if I want to get it at least running now, I re-wire for L/R bank batch injection, and wasted spark v8. This would get me running correct? I could build a crossover db37 for the MSextra plug (since I have wired the sequential already) and make this work I think right?what decoder would I use for this setup?

3- So, according to the oscope I have a 36 tooth(360* with 2 teeth missing 180* from another) flywheel. By capping the cam I can get a 36-1 arangement. IS THERE A DECODER FOR THIS???

This is a simular but different motor.(maybe you can use it for another decoder) I will dilligently work to come up with it if I have to make /degree it myself )

[jsmcortina]

Your crank isn't 36-1 though. It is 36-1-1. That needs a special decoder.

You can use the "composite logger" to record your exact crank and cam patterns.
Set spark mode to "log crank and cam", power off, power on.
In diagnostics, "log to file" and then Start a "Composite log"
Crank for 10-15 seconds.
"Stop" and untick the log to file. Post that log here.

James

[sjl008]

Your crank isn't 36-1 though. It is 36-1-1. That needs a special decoder.

You can use the "composite logger" to record your exact crank and cam patterns.
Set spark mode to "log crank and cam", power off, power on.
In diagnostics, "log to file" and then Start a "Composite log"
Crank for 10-15 seconds.
"Stop" and untick the log to file. Post that log here.

James

This is using a "NEW" cam "CAP" I described making with only 1 (TDC position @ cyl 1) slot? or just use the stock one?

Which do you want and I will post here.

[jsmcortina]

The existing code doesn't support 36-1-1 (like that) with a single tooth cam, so you wouldn't be any further forwards.

James

[sjl008]

The existing code doesn't support 36-1-1 (like that) with a single tooth cam, so you wouldn't be any further forwards.

James

I was just referencing this:
viewtopic.php?f=131&t=43664
posting.

[sjl008]

Your crank isn't 36-1 though. It is 36-1-1. That needs a special decoder.

You can use the "composite logger" to record your exact crank and cam patterns.
Set spark mode to "log crank and cam", power off, power on.
In diagnostics, "log to file" and then Start a "Composite log"
Crank for 10-15 seconds.
"Stop" and untick the log to file. Post that log here.

James

This is using a "NEW" cam "CAP" I described making with only 1 (TDC position @ cyl 1) slot? or just use the stock one?

Which do you want and I will post here.

Obviously its been a while since my last post-utilised that time to learn about the composite/crank/ tooth and trigger logger functions. Using my simple stim I was able to get the logger to work, and understand it a little. AS IT APPEARS, the logger function will not log a 'void' signal. The VR sensors MUST put out a semi-readable(Buffered) signal for it to show. My first trip back to the shop provided nothing for you in a file format-only unusable oscope patterns that showed that the voltage appeared to be set correct enough. Curious why it wouldn't provide a pattern in diagnostics when if I hook up the stim it works well and provides a detailed log file. So, I know its not the ECU, it has to be the VR setup.
I will be going again there today (3.5 hour to/from trip) i HOPE i AM succesful today.

Meanwhile, if anyone knows of a way I can get this car running i would be greatly abliged. If I am not successful I will be instaling a mazda crank sens with wasted spark (Temporary)

BTW- I am breadboarding up a stim that will mimic my engine's vr sensor outputs, and adjustable for other engines to streamline future issues of this nature. IF I AM INFRIGING into anyone's arena, please let me know, and I will gladly purchase their product instead. Hint- I work fast!

Cheers